Treasury Uncovered: 396 Stories So Far, Career-Changing Insights, and the Case for Bragging

Mike Richards, CEO, The Treasury Recruitment Company: We do these, uh, events and actually you need your elevator pitch. And I actually coached some people in Houston about this as well. And that is you need to go up to someone and before you do this, I said to the guys, I said, you can’t just walk up. And say, Hey, I’m Seth Marlow, the Treasury Whisperer.

Mike Richards: That’s it. Great. Nice to meet you. Thanks. No, you need to say, why would they it be valuable for them to have you in their network? So it’s, I’m the TRE and I have hosted this. I’ve, you know, I’ve got to know this one number of treasurers. So help them to get to know you and, and also another way we did it with Houston.

Mike Richards: I said to the guys, I said, you have to go and make at least five connections by this evening. And that is not just go click on LinkedIn. Oh, we’re friends now. That’s it. Greg, you are in power. Actually, you know, I thought at the time this is a good way trying to give them permission to actually speak to people.

Mike Richards: Everyone just died in and actually everyone was given this permission to talk to other treasurers. And evening was, and you know, I’ve got um, really great guy Harun who came up to me afterwards. Mike, I’ve got seven. Said what? He said, I’ve got seven and in fact I’ve got this other guy. Eight. I’ve done eight.

Mike Richards: ’cause I said, you have to before you leave tonight, get at least five new connections when treasurers work at it. You guys are incredible.

Mike Richards: Welcome to this week’s Treasury Greet Corner podcast A little bit. One with the difference. So normally I talk to treasury professionals about their treasury careers, where they started, where they are now, where they see themselves in the treasury profession go to next. But this one, it’s a bit of a show with a difference.

Mike Richards: I am being interviewed by Seth Marlow, more commonly known as the Treasury Whisperer. Uh, Seth was a guest of mine way back when, probably I think in the first year of the show, so about five, six years ago. Great guest back then, but Seth’s moved onwards and he’s actually recently started his own podcast, the Treasury Whisperer Podcast.

Mike Richards: So we’ll put a link to that in the show notes. But he interviewed me, wanted to know about lots of different things happening in the treasury market as a whole. So we had a good conversation. Talked about lots of stuff. We are gonna get back to normal programming next week, but this is Seth interviewing me.

Mike Richards: Uh, hope there’s some good advice there. Lots of advice for treasury professionals about how to build their brands and everything else. I’m gonna see lots of events and we’ve also got episode 400 coming up very soon. Look out for that one. But yeah, and next week back to a normal episode as well. Alright.

Mike Richards: Enjoyed the show. Thanks.

Seth Marlowe, Founder and Managing Director, Treasury Whisperer LLC: Hello whispers. I’m Seth Marlowe and welcome to the Treasury Whisperers Top Cast podcast, your go-to source for insightful interviews and dynamic panel discussions in the worlds of treasury banking payments, and FinTech. Today my guest is Mike Richards. For over 25 years, Mike Richards has been helping treasury professionals find roles where they can truly shine.

Seth Marlowe: As the CEO and founder of the treasury and recruitment company, he doesn’t just fill jobs. He helps build treasury careers and world-class treasury teams. Mike loves talking to the world’s leading treasurers about their career journeys, the challenges they faced, and where they see the treasury profession heading.

Seth Marlowe: His Treasury Career Corner podcast at www treasury career coroner.com is the outlet he uses to talk to the world’s leading treasurers and gain their insights. You’ll also find Mike on the treasury speaking circuit at events like the A FP National Conference, Euro Finance, windy City in Chicago, and Team Manny’s, New York Cash Exchange, or hosting a live Treasury career corner Live.

Seth Marlowe: That’s kind of redundant. Department of Redundancy Department folks. But you, you will find him at the conferences doing some of these live. Mike, welcome to the Treasury Whisperers Talk podcast.

Mike Richards: Thank you, Seth. Very grateful to be on here, but as I think I’ve said to you before the show as well, it’s very weird being the other side of the microphone.

Mike Richards: Every time I get interviewed and I do a few of them, it’s you start to ask me a question. I’m like, no, no, no. I asked the questions around here. I got so used to it after. I started the Treasury career corner just over seven years, or just coming on seven years ago now, and I thought we’d do 10 episodes.

Mike Richards: We’ve done, yeah, just approaching 400 episodes, 400 separate interviews, 430 treasurers on there about their treasury careers. Again, it’s still very weird to be this side of the microphone and you asking me questions. I’m like, no, I ask the question. That, the answer that’s right. In this talk

Seth Marlowe: podcast, uh, I think it is allowable for you to ask questions, but we’ll try to limit that.

Seth Marlowe: All right. I, I, I think the work that you’ve done with the Treasury Career podcast has been absolutely remarkable. The stories that your audience gets to hear is just, uh, magnificent. We, we really do gain the insights from many, many years of the experiences that they’ve had. And I’m waiting for you to step into a global treasury role at some point.

Seth Marlowe: I,

Mike Richards: I love the work that treasures do, but sometimes I think crumbs what they go through the pain, you know, the stories. I just think. They’re heroes in my eye. You know, the, the things that they do and you know, they manage with these small treasury teams and the impact that they make is astounding, really.

Mike Richards: And when you talk to them about, and how many are on your team? You know someone in general finance. Oh yeah. I’ve got 40 people. I’ve got fif. And you say to a treasurer, how many got, well there’s me and there’s a couple of us, like a team of three. And you’re like, hang on, you do this for your global treasury.

Mike Richards: Yeah. I’m like, okay. Then just. You just think they do so much? I mean, everyone talks about AI and things. I think this is an opportunity for them, for treasury professionals to be able to do more. Not with any less. They’ve already got less, right? But actually, you know, to actually hopefully get themselves out of the day to day a little bit more, and it’s not gonna replace people.

Mike Richards: We’ve talked about this and when people say, oh, he is replaced, it’s not. It’s a tool, you know, and so is a hammer, you know, A hammer can be dangerous weapon. It can also be, can build a beautiful house in, in everything else. So it’s a tool if you used in the right way.

Seth Marlowe: Yeah, I think it’s also going to separate the proverbial men from the boys and those that actually can do more.

Seth Marlowe: The analytical side and to actually get behind the numbers and behind the transactions is really gonna be the differentiating factor between those that, uh, are, are really the, the stars of, of the profession. Yeah, exactly. So how did you get started with treasury recruitment? Why treasury? Were you doing other financial areas of recruitment or were you not even doing recruiting?

Mike Richards: So I did a teaching degree and then. Fell into recruitment, as lots of people do. I did teaching recruitment, so for substitute teachers and things, a recruitment, a recruitment guy. Uh, they used to do our recruitment. He one day said, you should do finance recruitment. I was like, nah, accountants. No, not really.

Mike Richards: He went, it pays you twice as much money. And I was like, okay, where do I sit? Where’s my desk? And then, uh, so I showed up at Robert Walters and they said, we need someone to run our treasury desk. I said, what’s treasury? They said, we don’t really know. Okay then this is back in the night, they handed me this list of people and I started to get to know treasurers.

Mike Richards: I quite ra quickly found that treasurers are the first of the bar, often the last to leave it very sociable and very forward focused and the thinking. And I was like, I love you guys. And I thought even then I thought, I really enjoy talking to treasurers and what they do, the impact they have. You know, unlike, as we said earlier, some other areas of finance, which are perhaps not as.

Mike Richards: Forward focus can make this great impact on a company. You know, say I, yeah, I won’t, I won’t name and shame other areas of finance, but I just think treasury is the lead, myself and I, I just love it. Then so then, what was it, 2002? Yeah, so we’re just approaching actually our 23rd anniversary. I thought I’d, I’d work for Rob Walter, worked for a search firm, became hydrogen struggles.

Mike Richards: They wanted me to do global search work. But in other areas, and I went, guys, I love treasuries. And so in 2002 I started the treasury recruitment company and since then we’ve recruited across the world and we recruit right the way across, so right the way across the us, the uk, and Europe. Obviously with my lovely accent, it’s not quite as good as sets, but we’re getting there slowly and we recruit on at all levels from treasury analyst, a global treasurer, we offer advice, we do our global salary survey.

Mike Richards: Then as I said, I started Treasury career corner. Seven years ago, as we approached 400 episodes, we are over 200,000 downloads. It also gets CTP credits as well. Uh, it was approached by a FP, uh, pat Culkin, the new CEO, and he said, oh, would you consider doing it doing a mini quiz at the end of each episode so that people can get CTP credits and it helps ’em with their career?

Mike Richards: I’m like, yes. And it just took off. So it’s wow, win, win, win, and I just love it.

Seth Marlowe: Where do you see, uh, the demand for treasury professionals growing? The most corporates, which I think is clearly your forte. Yes. Or you know, the banking world, the FinTech world, because they too are part of this overall treasury world that we live in.

Mike Richards: And so in the early stages of my career, I used to do some banking recruitment. In fact, on a retained basis. We still do and have done in recent years, but that really has diminished her because there’s so many new entrants to the market, I think on the banking and financial services side. I think it’s quite a fragmented market.

Mike Richards: I think if, you know, and I often get approached, I get, well not often, I get approached daily by lots of banking guys who deal with treasurers and they often say to me, oh, I can do treasury. I can make a move. I’d recently had Keith Gore from Bristol Myers Squibb on the, on my podcast, and he took a a step, a step across and down in his career from banking to be a treasury, a corporate treasury professional.

Mike Richards: He was fantastic, but he said, you’ve gotta be prepared to do that. Well, I step backwards, but step downwards if you like, Hey, he took a cut in salary. ’cause he thought, actually corporate treasury’s gonna be right for me. But a lot of banking professionals who possibly could get into corporate treasury.

Mike Richards: But then when I say, well look, you’ll need to take a pay cut when eventually gets done, I went, no, I don’t wanna take a pay cut. Okay, well you need, but do you have, you know, so that maybe they do cash management. So do you do foreign exchange? Well, no, I don’t touch that at all. Do you do treasury management systems?

Mike Richards: Well, no, I don’t do that. I’ve never done that. And I’m like, guys, this is what the range and the breadth of what a corporate treasure does nowadays is just astounding. And I think that is the, the mini barrier to entry to banking professionals is not negative about them because they are great specialists at what they do.

Mike Richards: The utmost respect for them. But actually then when I say, look, you can’t make, or you’re gonna struggle to make that step across, you know, if they, you know, once they get that through the, you know, once they get that, an understanding of that, they often agree with me and they’re like, yeah, actually I can’t do that, or I don’t have those, or.

Mike Richards: It’s just a gap. Someone wants to retrain or do that stuff, then great, they can do it. Yeah. If that answers that a little bit, but yeah. But I do corporate treasury, so as I say, right away across Fortune 500, you for fts, E one hundreds, top companies, private companies, as long as it’s corporate treasury, that’s us.

Seth Marlowe: Great. I’m curious also. Differences with the US market in terms of what US companies and US treasurers are looking for qualifications versus, I don’t even wanna say Europe, but just rest

Mike Richards: of world. Yeah. We are pro-education and we’ve said that a lot and we, we, again, we’ve. Partnered with the A FP. ’cause we are like, if anyone wants to, we actually provide, we’ve got a partnership with those guys so that anyone who wants to study CTP, you can get a discount on study because we want to support treasury professionals.

Mike Richards: Some of them say, oh, do I need it? I was talking to a lovely young lady the other day and she said, should I get it? And was like, yes. She was like, well, you know, you didn’t really think about that. I went, no, I didn’t think about it. There’s nothing to think about. Why would I think about it? It’s like, if you can be better.

Mike Richards: Have a rubber stamp of your level of experience. I said, did you get a degree? She was like, well, yeah, I did. I went and got my MBA. I said, so you believe in study then? Well, yes I do. And I said, and what was, what subject was it in? Well, actually it was in economics and stuff. I said, well, why did you bother to study that?

Mike Richards: Well, because that was gonna help me in my career, and now I’m in treasury. And yes, I do lean back on that. I said, okay. If you’re gonna continue within Treasury, do you think that would help you? Well, yes it would. It was like she, she was like, yeah, I’ve gotta do it. Really? Him and I, I was like, yeah, I think it’s just, it’s a great rubber stamp of your experience.

Mike Richards: Again, within the UK you have the A CT qualifications, the Association of Corporate Treasury uk, and then across Europe there are a number of different ones. There’s some good ones over in the Netherlands. They’ve got some others and they’re different programs across Europe and we’re pro any of it. As long as it, you know, does that, we put, we’ve got a partnership array.

Mike Richards: Well, we actually do. We’ve got a small program that we are just starting an education program, which will help people who are totally brand new to treasury, like a day in the life of a treasurer. That’s, we’re just working on that, being released that, because what we do find is that a lot of the training providers out there are rather expensive, and we think there’s a more inexpensive way to do it, support the profession, and we’re doing that.

Mike Richards: Someone said the other day. Are you gonna do it? And said, no, we do it to support and the more that we pay it forward that if I help someone who’s a treasury analyst, now there’ll be a global treasury unit. Uh, it used to be on our website. Actually, I might bring it back one day. Today’s treasury analyst is tomorrow’s group treasurer.

Mike Richards: And people said, oh, it’s a bit corny. It’s not. It’s true. No, it’s reality. Some of the guys I’m talking to now, I’ve placed them. Recruited for them. Had Adam Richford on the podcast the other day. He used to be head of GE Capital Real Estate, and I recruited for him and then I eventually moved him to renew e and he is recently become the global treasurer of Smith and Nephew, a large UK corporate.

Mike Richards: Been on the podcast three times and we’re just talking about, actually, I’ve known him as a candidate in 20, you know, 22 years ago. He was one of my first, I’m like, yeah. And now he’s a global treasurer and it’s. You know, it’s about helping a, supporting the profession. That’s the key thing.

Seth Marlowe: What’s, um, what’s the biggest shift you’ve seen in the industry over the last five to 10 years?

Seth Marlowe: That’s a good, could you make that question a little bit wider and more even with within treasury professionals? Yeah. Just, or, or may, may, maybe actually, you know, call it treasury careers. Yeah. The progressions, treasury careers, the entry, the exits. I think

Mike Richards: there’s a lot of answers to it. I think one of the key things now is treasury has become more recognized.

Mike Richards: One of the things I, when I was on with Jim Kates, who’s just finished with the A FP and Pat, we were talk, they were talking about trying to push treasury out as a profession, you know, push it into universities. Pushing out there so that people get, I think still most people get into treasury by accident.

Mike Richards: You know, it’s a non-planned career choice. They go, ha, on what’s treasury about? And you know, when I first started 20 odd years ago, people say, oh, you treasury, so you, you recoup for the government, right? I’m like, no, no, this is for corporates and this is this person who, you know, looks after today’s money in the future.

Mike Richards: And people said, well, describe it. And I said, well, finance director looks after today’s. Looks after all of the finances, financial control today and backwards tax guy minimizing your tax bill. Treasurer today’s money in the future. And I think that, and that’s one of the things to answer your question, I think that’s where it’s become more that the treasurer, the best treasurers out there have become, in some ways slightly deputy CFO.

Mike Richards: Like not all the time, but a lot of the time. Actually, the ones that I’ve seen more successful are when they go to their CFO and say, right, what can I help you with? And they might be overworked and they might have lots of things on, but they still go put their hand up and say, right, how can I help you?

Mike Richards: What can I do? How can I assist you? And it’s like they become the right hand person. And by doing that, it not only elevates treasury within the company, it also elevates their role. It’s more interesting. I know in the past. And you may know Todd Yoda. Great guy. Todd said to me at one stage, he was in his role and I said, oh, you know you are treasurer.

Mike Richards: He said, well, I am treasurer by the, don’t you do treasury at the moment? I said, why? He said, well, I’ve got two great deputies and we sit down and have a coffee once, once in, on a Monday morning, and then off we go and they, they go on, you know, do their stuff. I’m then helping with this. I’m doing supply chain, I’m doing assurance.

Mike Richards: I’m doing risk management enterprise. Then eventually he’s gone on to be a CFO ’cause that’s where he wanted to go. I don’t think every treasurer has to go and be a CFO, but some of them do and some of ’em love it. Some of them say, no, that’s not my career path. And they don’t have to. I think, you know, treasury as a career has certainly evolved.

Mike Richards: Yeah. I,

Seth Marlowe: I’ve always thought that, uh, the dynamic between the the CFO and Treasurer was a vital piece of the finance function actually operating well. That partnership doesn’t really exist or it’s not solid. It can be, it make for rather treacherous ground. What kind of advice would you give to I, I would say mid-level treasury professionals that are trying to figure out how to make it up the ranks.

Mike Richards: Listen to the Treasury Career Corner podcast. Listen to that, get some great tips and thanks very much. There you go. There you go. Mic dropping. Sorry I had to get there. Actually, seriously speaking. That’s one of the things that I’ve realized from the show. I mean. Seth and I spoke before. I never thought we’d do so many shows, but each and every person that I talk to people said, how have you managed to do these so many shows?

Mike Richards: I said, well, you know, we was at one of the EuroFinance conferences and they said, well, you’ve done this. I said, look, within 10 feet of me, we’ve got 10 different treasurers, right? They’re like, oh yeah. I said, they all do the same job. They’ve all got the same job title to do exactly the same way. And they’re like, well, no, they don’t.

Mike Richards: I said, no. ’cause they work for a private company. They work for a public, they work, they’re debt laden. They’re cash rich. They’re centralized. Decentralized. Each of these stories for all these treasurers, you know, you and I will meet a FP in Boston later this year. There’ll be so many treasury folk at everyone.

Mike Richards: What title has so many different variety? Everyone. There are lots of common things like the tools they use and some of the common approaches, but the commonality is as common as the differences as well. You know, so how amazing and things like that. So going back to answer your question, long way of answering it is I think by listening to the podcast, people can choose their career path.

Mike Richards: Treasury isn’t just one straight. Straight line. You know, you hear about squiggly careers, don’t you? And things like that. You can move across different things. I was talking to a treasurer just today and he’s been in, uh, real estate and now he’s in heavy industrial. And he said, oh, do you think I’m, you know, in chemicals?

Mike Richards: And I said, well, you can do, but you could move into a FinTech. You know, it’s not a direct easy move. But I said, there are, but there’s also commonalities, what you’ve done. FMCG and consumer goods, you could do that. And he was like, oh, actually, yeah, I could do that. I was like, you’ve got the skillset if you want to use them.

Mike Richards: I said, it’s more about the approach to the company, maybe the size. And actually when I talked to him, we talked about the fact he could go and be a treasurer of a smaller group. Or he could be maybe a deputy treasurer at a larger group and then develop his skill set from there. So I think, you know, talking about mid-level as well.

Mike Richards: Say you’re a treasury manager today and you’re listening to this podcast, it’s just think about where your career path is going to go. I did a recent post and we do a week, I do a weekly video, so anyone listening, feel free to connect to me on LinkedIn. But the reason I say that is I had a business coach, she said, right, you have to talk.

Mike Richards: And I was like, oh God, do I have to? But basically on a Tuesday we do a newsletter. On the Friday, I do my reaction to it and I do a five minute video, and one I did the other day was about goal setting. I think too many treasury professionals get too much in the weeds. When was the last time they, you know, you celebrated your wins?

Mike Richards: And Emma Haywood, she amazing. She said, each week she sends herself an email, puts it in a little box and a little outlook box, and it says, right, what have I done? Well, this week, what have the team done? Well, this week, actually in the other way round. And she literally, and so when the CFO just sort swings past this, how you getting on?

Mike Richards: What’s happened? She, she’d go, right, so this month we’ve done this, this week we’ve done this. But she’s got those things to hand. So she’s selling upwards, if you like, selling her dream. But then I also think a lot of treasurers here listening, don’t take time to have a coffee with themselves. Sit down.

Mike Richards: Where’s your 30 day? You know, if you are going for a new job, you might say, right, what’s your 30 day plan for treasury? What’s 60 day? You know, what’s, what’s the end of the first month gonna look like? The end of the first quarter, end of six months into 12 months? You might ask that as a, it’s a great, you know, set the frame and stuff like that, but then once you’re in the company, do you actually go back to that?

Mike Richards: Do you ever do that yourself? And a lot of people go, well, no, I’m just getting on and doing the day job. Well, how, if you’re not gonna set your goals for you and the team, how are you gonna measure yourself? How are you gonna measure yourself as you progress? By having all of that,

Seth Marlowe: when it comes to the end of the year, you’ve got your performance appraisal written, and we all know that we, most of the time, we end up writing our own performance reviews and giving them to our managers.

Mike Richards: What did I do in January last year? You know, what? What were we doing? You know, you look all you need to, and it doesn’t take long just. Put in a reminder, even if it’s not weekly. I know that a couple of guys have said, I just, I said, no, it’s fine. Do it monthly. Just celebrate your wins. Just say, look, just email yourself or make a note of them and then, then you can do just a quick search.

Mike Richards: Say, wins wins of the year and you’ve got your progression of 12 months. But I think you also, some people will find. How many wins will there be and you? Are they real? You know, thinking, hang on, what am I gonna win? My wins gonna be from month 13 to month 24. How are we gonna upscale this? I think a lot of people, as I say, treasury, there’s a lot of pressure on people and I think they get pushed down into the weeds too easily, and I think that’s unfair.

Seth Marlowe: Think treasury people do. In terms of networking, they are either

Mike Richards: brilliant or terrible. It’s no in between, not really in between. Very little. I mean, people have said to me, oh, you are a natural networker. I’m not. I have to work at it. It’s like it is work. And actually that’s a, that’s a good way of doing it in networking.

Mike Richards: The word networking. There’s the bit in the middle, which is work. And actually it is work When you, when you and I see each other at a New York Cash exchange, which is a brilliant event, everyone listening should be going there and we’ll meet there. And you, I’ve met a previous ones and we go to other conferences.

Mike Richards: You know, we, I did it with Summer Simmons and Nicole Meyer. Uh, last year we did a great session at a FP. And one of the great things that Summer said, so it was her credit. I’ll give her some credit a little bit, not too much. He talked about having. A break. Sometimes having a break because said, if you’re doing it right, you will be quite exhausted.

Mike Richards: You’ll be quite tired. So you’ve gotta work that room. You’ve gotta have an elevator pitch, you’ve gotta go up to someone, talk to them, and I give this coaching. Sometimes we do our Treasure Career corner lives and just to, for people listening, so do the podcast, but also we do live events across the us.

Mike Richards: I’m doing one just before New York Cash Exchange. So at six o’clock we sit down with three treasurers, registration at 6, 6 30 us to talk to them for an hour and after one hour. And we always get to the hour because then we’ve got networking drinks and treasurers. Treasurers love treasury folk. They love to network.

Mike Richards: A lot of the, uh, law firms we usually do at their venues and they go, your treasurers, they love networking, don’t they? And I was like, yeah, they. No one left. I said, what do you mean they went, nobody left normally. Apparently lawyers, about 50% of them leave the room, but they said no. Uh, we did one of our London events.

Mike Richards: We had like 136 people and they went, eight people walked out. I went, yeah, they went and we had 128. We had no, I said, I know I had to work behind the bar for a bit, but, um, we do these, uh, events and actually you need your elevator pitch and I actually coach some people in Houston about this as well. And that is, you need to go up to someone and before you do this.

Mike Richards: Said to the guys, I said, you can’t just walk up. And say, Hey, I’m Seth Marlow of Treasury Whisperer. That’s it. Great. Nice to meet you. Thanks. No, you need to say, why would they it be valuable for them to have you in their network? So it’s, I’m the TRE and I have hosted this. I’ve, you know, I’ve got to know this one number of treasurers.

Mike Richards: So help them to get to know you. And also, another way we did it with Houston. I said to the guys, I said, you have to go and make at least five connections by this evening. And that is not just go click on LinkedIn. Oh, we’re friends now. That’s it. Greg, you are in power. Actually, you know, I thought at the time this is a good way, trying to give them permission to actually speak to people.

Mike Richards: Mm-hmm. And Bridget Meyer, red Bridge, she came up to me and she went, that was brilliant. And I was like, why should we just went, everyone started speak and it was, it did go mad sort of thing. People were like, blah, blah, blah, blah, boom. Because they would, I had to tell them, they would give them permission to network because otherwise it’s like small talk and you get a drink here and it’s quite, that’s right.

Mike Richards: Everyone just died in, and actually everyone was given this permission to talk to other treasurers. Evening was, and you know, I got a really great guy, Harun, who came up to me afterwards, went, Mike, I’ve got seven. I said, what? He said, I’ve got seven. In fact, I’ve got this other guy. Eight. I’ve done eight.

Mike Richards: Because I said, you have to, before you leave tonight, get at least five new connections when treasurers work at it. You guys are incredible. When you don’t, you can fade into the background and you know, I see it sometimes at a FP Euro Finance. Big conferences, they can be quite over overall, you know, or crumbs.

Mike Richards: Yeah, it, it’s quite a, and also with the greatest respect to all the exhibitors, you can find them. They’re flocking to you. Hang on, look, gimme a badge. Let’s have a quick look. The fact is, you know, you need to take time for yourself and be much more, and again, Somerset talked about, and I’ve talked about it as well, you need to plan your time.

Mike Richards: Who, what, which sessions are you gonna go to? Have, you know, this is a work conference. It’s not just Right, let’s out the office, let’s go to the cocktail party. We’ll do that later. You know, again, one of the, I think one of the, uh, the working title we had for our networking session, you know, which we gave on the first day, um, of a FP in Nashville was.

Mike Richards: They had, we have an official title. I said that official title’s rubbish. I said my title was what not to do at a FP 2024. And it was like, and I said, right, hands up. Who here has been, this is your first or second conference. So about 50% of the hands went up. I said, okay, great. So you got 50% newbies who’s been coming here like at least five or six years plus.

Mike Richards: And it was the other 50%. I went, great you guys who have been coming here, talk to them. Just tell them about the fact it’s a marathon, not a sprint. When you, you know, when we do this thing, I do my event the night before in New York, I’m gonna have to be careful that I’m not gonna go crazy ’cause I’ve got then another two days of New York Cash Exchange.

Mike Richards: I can do that with a hangover. Yeah. I can barely, you know, I can barely speak with a hangover. There’s, yeah, I think that’s one of the key things. So treasure’s a greater networking or they need some work, they need some hand. So I, I, I

Seth Marlowe: often quote, I believe it’s, uh. Jim Gilligan, who treasurer of, I think at the time was a, a Midwest energy company and he used to talk about internal networking.

Seth Marlowe: Yes. He would talk about, go and sit down in somebody’s office and find out what did they do, what’s their role in the organization, you know, especially in those, those other finance areas that are so closely aligned. Go talk to the controller, but talk to the head of the tax department. Hey, talk to the head of strategic planning.

Seth Marlowe: And there is, it seems to be so much more difficult to have those conversations within the four walls of your own organization, but it’s, it’s as essential, I think perhaps even more so to have, have success in, in role as a, a treasury professional.

Mike Richards: And just to add to that, and this is, we actually covered this in a, one of our first newsletters because it was an actual, what we do is each of the newsletters isn’t just some PRB Bs or anything else.

Mike Richards: It’s actual real ’cause basically it’s, it’s drawn from stories I have with candidates or with clients. One of the treasurers I was talking to was coaching a junior level treasury analyst and or treasury specialist actually at the time. So real, really just starting out. He said, look, I really want to get my network going.

Mike Richards: How do I do this? He went, go and have a coffee. He like, what? Just that? He said, no, you know, he was quite over, well, how do I talk to head of fp and a? He said, well, you don’t have to talk to the head of. Go tell the deputy, you know, say, look, can I get a coffee with you so I could understand what you guys do, right?

Mike Richards: And then he did. He did a couple of weeks. He did about three weeks. He said, how many coffees I’ve had? Two. He said, right, you need to drink more coffee. Okay. He said, no. He said, you’re just by doing those. He said, you need to do a minimum of one bare minimum, probably two a week. So it was like Tuesday and Friday he’d do this every week and he suddenly he’d be meeting eight people and the next week, eight people.

Mike Richards: Within six months this guy was, so he eventually got headhunted out of his role and went and worked for the CEO or is like their sort of go-to Friday person. He had a bumble bum and was just doing this because this per this guy had got to know everything and was actually onto their graduate program.

Mike Richards: You know, they’re like, wow, this guy really knows it. I think the flip side was, I actually talked to the treasurer a bit later. He said I started to drink more coffee. I was like, oh, right. He said, yeah, I didn’t drink as much coffee as I should have done. I was like, oh, right, okay. He said, yeah. And I’ve, I’ve heard that from a few others that you know that you, again, this week’s newsletter’s about the spotlight on treasury.

Mike Richards: Will it drift away? Well, when it’s on treasury and you know, you sometimes might pass your CEO in the corridor once you know, hi. Hi. And the last time you met them was at your interview. When was the last time you then talked to them properly? Unless you’re in a crisis. That’s right. You know, the, the spotlight drifts away sort of thing.

Mike Richards: So actually you want the, if you want to keep treasury in the limelight, in the spotlight, you’ve gotta work at it. And it is work. Our podcast is sponsored by I-C-D-I-C-D are an independent platform trusted by thousands of treasury professionals worldwide to manage short-term investments. One. Global Treasurer recently told me it was one of the smartest technology decisions they’ve made.

Mike Richards: No license fees, rapid setup and tangible returns. If you are looking for a smarter, simpler way to manage your liquidity, then head to find out more at our partners page, treasury recruitment.com/partners, and find out much more. Let’s get back to the episode

Seth Marlowe: and, and that comes back to the elevator pitch, which is not.

Seth Marlowe: Build it once and forget about it. That’s a, that’s a continuously updated tool that you need to have. A hundred percent.

Mike Richards: Yeah.

Seth Marlowe: So with, with all of the treasurers that, that you’ve spoken to and interviewed on, uh, the Treasury Career podcast, what, what’s kind of the, what’s the most surprising theme or storyline?

Seth Marlowe: Emerge for you?

Mike Richards: I think there’s a few different things, and again, you and I talked about this earlier, that they’re not very good at their own pr. I think they do a great job, but they don’t tell people about it. And you’ve gotta sell, you know, not, and it’s not a case of telling everybody you need to sell your, you know why you’re making a difference.

Mike Richards: Does anyone know the difference you’ve made by implementing this RCF? We’ve talked about recording your wins and everything else. I think treasurers are very good at, and a lot of the time they’ll be very good at. Helping their team along and you know, promoting from within sometimes and, you know, helping their, their team get to the next, but are they doing the same for themselves?

Mike Richards: I think they sometimes can be too, you know, what’s the word for facing or whatever, that they don’t do enough for themselves. And I think that’s a key thing as well. I also said to you before that, you know, what’s a weird, I thought, I used to think I was a really good recruiter. Now, and I was at the JP Morgan thing when I talked to 30 treasurers, national treasurers.

Mike Richards: I said, now I’m a brilliant recruiter. They’re like, look at this confident person. And I wasn’t. I said, no, I’m not. I said, I’m not doing that. I said, I used to understand or used to think I understood treasury. Now I really do understand treasury ’cause I’ve had 400 of your stories and tales drilled into me, and I’ve learned from that and I’ve really taken that on board.

Mike Richards: But then what that’s also taught me is. The fact that a lot of people didn’t hear, have never heard this story, the fact that. You know, sometimes with podcasts you have, you know, you’ve got your podcast going out there. What are your stats? You know, how many people listen to it? We’ve got 200,000 downloads.

Mike Richards: Each episode now gets like five, 800 downloads. So I’m going, you know, and in the past something, you know, you have all these popular podcasts that say, oh, we got a million downloads this week. And I’m like, wow, that’s great for them. But the fact is, if I was to share an auditorium with 500 treasury professionals listening to the story of that one treasurer.

Mike Richards: My head would explode. But actually that’s what we do each and every week. And that’s where, and I think that’s what I’ve learned, is that treasurers, you know, need to push themselves forward and they need to be their biggest advocates. And I don’t think they are. I think they do, uh, they do a pretty poor job of themselves.

Mike Richards: The ones that do actually embrace that or actually get, you know, uh, train themselves to do that. Right. They go, Dana, in the late hold, Dana in the late hold ex Peloton as d. Now she’s Nasdaq. She was live on stage with me and Chris Cohan from Endeavor, a New York our session year or so ago, and she’s talked about this public.

Mike Richards: She’s talked about the original episode. She has a number of coaches who coach her, and one is about her presentation skills. One is about her technical expertise. One is about she’s got three or four personal coaches. She invests in herself. Now, I’m not saying everyone. Can do that, you know? But that’s what she’s done.

Mike Richards: As she’s grown throughout her career, she’s invested in herself and that’s been a worthwhile investment, you know, because now she’s the global treasure of a nasdaq. Wow. This lady’s, you know, and she is incredibly impressive, amazing lady. She’s had to work, she’s worked, you know, do the work or in the work on yourself as well as your, you know, your treasury team and for your company.

Mike Richards: Are they always looking after you yourself? No, that’s one of the other bits. No, and I mean, again, one of the other points is, you know, and I, again, from what of the bits I’ve said this week is when’s, when’s the best time to look for a new job? Yesterday and before, like I said, well, fact is I’ve just had a guy in Chicago, good friend, his company is suddenly.

Mike Richards: Shutting up shop. They’re moving. They’re not gonna take anyone with them. He was thinking actually it’s his job, not till retirement, but you know, certainly for the ongoing futurely bug’s pulled out. Now it’s great. He’s gonna gonna get himself sorted somewhere else. That’s fine. But he was like, wow, everything’s changed for him.

Mike Richards: That right. It’s not fair. He’s been treated like trash. But the fact is. Luckily he’s got over that. But I think you guys need, you know, anyone listening that you need to look after yourselves first. And it just, I’m not sure all companies, they’re not, you know, they’re not always investing in you and your career.

Mike Richards: You need to do that for yourself and take responsibility for it.

Seth Marlowe: That’s great advice. Um, but I, I think we’re gonna get towards, uh, the, the wrap up here. So. If you had to name a few dream guests who have not been on the podcast yet,

Mike Richards: would those people be one is gonna be your keynote speaker with, with you, Seth?

Mike Richards: Yes. New York, cast name Tony Massone. The funny thing for me is, uh, the Global Treasurer for Amazon. Great guy. I’ve known him for many years. I used to recruit for him at GE when he ran the, the CP program, the commercial paper program over in Paris, and I recruited for him over in his Paris office and things like that.

Mike Richards: So I’ve known him all those times and he’s gone up up. So that was, he was one of the people. There are a number of different people. It’s actually, what’s what’s weird for me is I approach a lot of guests across UK and Europe. We get a very different response. People are saying, oh yeah, I’ve heard they’ll have heard the podcast.

Mike Richards: They really like it. I say, great, so will you be on the show? They said, send me the details. I’ll think about it. And they’re like, alright, okay, well that’s, so, that’s a maybe then, whereas when I go to US corporate treasurers, it’s a different thing and it’s much better actually. I, I really like it, that when actually I go to them, they say, send me the details.

Mike Richards: We get, we will get a date booked in. Okay. I think there’s a different ethos there as well. So if anyone’s listening that is a corporate treasurer and wants to be on the show, I would love to have them on there. I think Tony’s one. So yeah, an answer to your question. So Tony, anyone, any other treasurers really that have a story to, you know, I’ve had some incredible guests over the time, you know, just the list.

Mike Richards: When I look down now I’m like, it’s amazing. You know, I just was name dropping All those different people like Dana La told, I’ve got. Summer Simmons. I’ve got just Sherry and Nicole speaks recently. She from jc, uh, JBT and Morell and stuff. And each and every one of them is just amazing and there’s just lots of great treasurers out there.

Mike Richards: Yeah. Again, we are always looking for guests, so, you know, I want people to keep on reaching out to me.

Seth Marlowe: It’s definitely a, a who’s who of Treasury. It’s, uh, for those of us that are listening to the early stages of my podcast, um, there’s a lot for me to learn from you, Mike. Appreciate what you’ve been doing for us in the industry.

Seth Marlowe: One last question. I’ll call the, the bonus round here. What’s one treasury myth that, uh, you’d love to

Mike Richards: bus stop once and for all? We talked about this. I was interviewed on someone else’s podcast and their content writer wrote, Mike covers this boring niche, and I was like, I was. I was, I century. I’m like going, I, I was like, take this down.

Mike Richards: You know, like, this is, I’m like, how, you know? Firstly, I just thought it is a bit rude. Anyway, I think, you know, the, the way they’ve written it. Yeah. But more than that, treasury is not boring. Treasury is the antithesis. It’s the opposite end of it. Treasury is exciting. If you want to go and buy another company, if you want to do all this amazing stuff, who do you go to?

Mike Richards: You go to your treasurer if you are. Faced with this incredible crisis or tariffs come along, or there’s geopolitical events and you’re thinking, crumbs, how are we gonna keep the company going? You go to your CFO, who’s the, and the CFO turns to the treasurer and says like, right, how are you? How are you gonna help me get out of this?

Mike Richards: What are we gonna do? Treasury is exciting. Um, I, I remember I was at one of the Economist events and they, you know, I said, Treasury’s cool. And they were like, well, yeah, Treasury’s a new call. I went, no, but it is, they were thinking I was being, you know, a little bit jokey. I wasn’t, treasury is cool. I, I love it.

Mike Richards: And it’s like, I don’t think I could have done 400 conversations so far and ongoing with it. If it was boring, then I would’ve given up after 10, and I haven’t, I just love doing it and I, I just. Loves sharing the different, you know, journeys of tres.

Seth Marlowe: Thank you, Mike. I think that the bottom line is, I think the quote for the session Treasury is not boring, the headline.

Seth Marlowe: Thank you very much. There you go, Mike. Thank you so much for joining me today. It’s, uh, always a pleasure. Look forward to seeing you in New York, and then, uh, up in, in Boston at the A FP as well.

Mike Richards: Today’s episode of the Treasury Career Corner was brought to you with the support of our partners ICD. If you are looking for a smarter way to manage your short term investments, ICDs independent portal gives you access to a full range of investment products, integrated analytics, and a simple centralized platform built specifically for treasury.

Mike Richards: If you head over to treasury recruitment.com/partners, you can learn more and we’ll be able to connect you with the right person at ICD for both you and your business. Many thanks for listening to the show and thanks for your continued support.