Building Resilient Treasury Teams: How to Lead Across Cultures and Industries

Welcome to another episode of the Treasury Career Corner Podcast, this week, we are thrilled to be joined by Garry Murphy, Group VP and Treasury Director at Sodexo, a global leader in sustainable food services and facilities management.

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Featuring

Garry Murphy

Treasury Director at Sodexo

Mike Richards

CEO, The Treasury Recruitment Company

About this episode

Garry leads Sodexo’s global treasury operations, overseeing teams across continents and managing complex cash flow, risk, and financing needs. With over a decade of treasury leadership experience, Garry is passionate about developing teams, embracing technology, and creating strategic value for global organizations.

Episode Highlights:

  • From his beginnings in corporate banking at PricewaterhouseCoopers to leading treasury operations at Sodexo, Garry shares how his diverse experiences shaped his approach to treasury management.
  • Discover how Garry leveraged his banking background to transition into treasury, tackling new challenges at companies like Paddy Power and Ornua (formerly Irish Dairy Board).
  • Learn how Garry managed merging teams and navigating unprecedented challenges like the COVID-19 pandemic while maintaining operational excellence.
  • Explore how Sodexo is leveraging treasury management systems and emerging technologies to streamline processes and enhance reporting.
  • Garry reveals how fostering trust and alignment with CFOs and empowering treasury teams is key to driving success.
  • Garry shares the lessons he learned, the importance of attitude, and tips for making the leap from banking to treasury.

Key Takeaways:

  • For Treasury Leaders: Build a culture of trust, align with organizational goals, and prioritize actionable reporting over data overload.
  • For Aspiring Treasurers: Embrace learning opportunities, develop a proactive attitude, and seek mentors who support your growth.
  • For Teams: Innovate with technology to reduce manual work, enabling more focus on strategic, value-adding activities.

You can connect with Garry Murphy on LinkedIn.

Are you interested in pursuing a career within Treasury?

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[00:00:00] Mike: So welcome to this week’s Treasury Career Corner podcast. We interview treasury professionals about their treasury careers. Each and every week I talk to treasurers about how they’ve built their careers, where they are now, where they [00:00:10] see both themselves and the treasury profession. Going to next in this week’s show, I’m joined by Gary Murphy, group VP Treasury Director at Sodexo.

[00:00:18] Founded in Marsai [00:00:20] in 1966 by Pierre Bellon. Sodexo is a global leader in sustainable food and valued experiences Every moment in life, learn, work, heal, and play. [00:00:30] The group stands for its independence, founding family, shareholding and responsible business model. The key to activities are food and facilities management [00:00:40] services. I’m going to get Gary to explain a bit more about Sodexo later on in the show. We’re going to go back to the beginning. Gary, if you would, the first star in finance and then treasury. [00:00:50] Talk us through how you first started over to you, sir.

[00:00:52] Yeah, thanks,

[00:00:53] Garry: Mike. Yeah, I’m from Ireland. I live in Dublin and I did my college degree here. I did a business degree and I hadn’t really [00:01:00] studied accounting, but I went down the accounting path. I took, I was, I went through a program with Coopers and Librand at the time and was sponsored to do a master’s. I did that for a year and then went into, [00:01:10] but by the time I came back, Coopers had become PricewaterhouseCoopers.

[00:01:13] We were the first year of PwC. And I worked in the asset management practice for about three years, which is really interesting, a great time. It’s [00:01:20] a nice kind of almost an extension from college because you’re with a group, a young intake, and it’s a good social activity, which have a good kind of camaraderie with all your peer group.

[00:01:28] I knew I probably wouldn’t [00:01:30] stay in practice. I had always been looking probably to move more into banking. I did my three years there and I moved into one of the bigger banks in Dublin into an internal audit role first for a few months, but [00:01:40] then I quickly transitioned into a corporate banking role. Which was a big change.

[00:01:43] It was, you’re dealing with clients, a portfolio of large corporates, you’re now trying to sell the bank’s products. But [00:01:50] you’re also, I think the big thing for me was, you’re now doing full credit assessments of these entities, of these customers, writing credit applications, presenting them to credit committees, [00:02:00] and really getting into the nuts and bolts of the financial metrics of a company and what makes it tick and starting to understand, Really cash flow and EBITDA and working [00:02:10] capital and all of those kind of great things that we look at in Treasury now, but really trying to understand them from the bank’s perspective.

[00:02:16] So did that for three years and then made a move into Ulster Bank. So very [00:02:20] similar role, but Ulster Bank was part of the Royal Bank of Scotland group at the time. So it was the Irish arm of it effectively. But moved on to a team of much larger corporate PLCs and semi state bodies. [00:02:30] And that was really interesting because obviously being part of RBS was a much bigger banking group and so had access to much more different platforms.

[00:02:37] We were able to sell [00:02:40] DCM, so like bonds and US private placements, but also much more advanced levels of cash management, cash pooling. Much bigger kind of FX dealing rooms, just a [00:02:50] lot more products that you’re able to sell to more, more sophisticated client base.

[00:02:53] Mike: So just jump in there, Gary, and I’ve had this a number of times, less so in the UK, but more in Ireland and [00:03:00] Europe and across that’s a good place to start.

[00:03:02] Cause you get to know the other side of the table. So you get to know the banking side of the table to treasurers like yourself. Do you think that’s a, would you recommend people do [00:03:10] that? Because also there’s that balance between. Sales and actually helping treasurers sort of thing. What was it like for you?

[00:03:16] Garry: Yeah, no for me, I would say yeah, I really enjoyed my [00:03:20] time in banking. You really learn your trade. I think like everyone Colleagues, I still talk to we recall standing outside the room before credit committee It’s probably the worst exam [00:03:30] you’re ever going to face in your life You’re in facing very senior executives in the bank who will ask you the most difficult questions and you have to be prepared and you’ve really learned to be, to really know your [00:03:40] information about your clients.

[00:03:41] But I think absolutely you get, you deal a lot with CFOs and treasurers and you get to understand. I think we can talk about it a bit later when I [00:03:50] actually transitioned into treasurer myself, I realized I didn’t actually know a lot about what the treasurers do. You learn a lot about kind of what the company does and what’s important and what’s important to [00:04:00] the CFO about treasury.

[00:04:01] Whereas I think you’re probably not as familiar maybe with the daily operational, albeit in some cases, if you’re managing their cash pooling and their banking and that sort of stuff, you’ll [00:04:10] have a good familiarity, but definitely I would recommend, yeah, like a corporate banking role. You get a really good base level of training and understanding of the bank’s [00:04:20] products, what goes on in industry in terms of banks.

[00:04:22] So understanding what a debt capital markets team is, you’re not going to get that anywhere else really. And understanding why banks make decisions the way they do [00:04:30] really helpful then when you’re sitting on the other side of the table, because you can really understand because as a treasurer, you’re dealing with relationship managers, relationship directors, and if you’ve been one of those, you understand the pressure [00:04:40] they’re under or why they’re asking for certain things, and that can make the, you want, certainly in my role, Now I want mutually beneficial relationship.

[00:04:48] We want to be a happy customer, but we want [00:04:50] happy bankers as well to a point. So

[00:04:51] Mike: just on that, you talk about the leavers, if you like, that they’re looking for the leavers for the CFO, leavers for the treasurer. [00:05:00] Reflecting on that, you obviously have those relationships. Now, when you talk to your banks, you’re saying you guys want this.

[00:05:05] Because you know it, you’ve lived and breathed it. What would you say are the key things, I know we’ll [00:05:10] talk about it later on, but the key things that you think, are they looking for visibility on cash, or just what is it?

[00:05:18] Garry: I think banks are all [00:05:20] looking for different things, right? So banks will want to sell whatever they’re good at, and banks will realise, we’re good at this area, we’re not so good at this area. So your job as a treasurer is very much to say, okay, [00:05:30] we’re understand what ticks the boxes for that bank. They should have probably more of this type of business. Maybe they’re good on cash management, but they’re not so good at DCM.

[00:05:38] Other banks maybe less have, don’t have a [00:05:40] cash management platform. So you have to split your business to make sure that it’s spread fairly among your bank pool. I think from a banker, when you’re looking at a CFO, when I think about a CFO, [00:05:50] he wants strategic advice from his treasurer. But he also just wants comfort and safety and knowledge that everything’s okay.

[00:05:56] You know what I mean? That the treasurer has a cover. It’s safe in our hands. Everything’s [00:06:00] safe and we don’t need to worry about anything. Or if we do, that my treasurer is going to tell me and come with a plan and we’ll fix it. And so from the banker’s perspective, it’s about having that close relationship [00:06:10] with the treasurer to understand what are the key things that are important and every company is different.

[00:06:15] Like every, people always say to me, what’s it like to work in treasury? I say, it’s. Working in treasury in one [00:06:20] company is very different to working in another company to the next company. There’s different things that are important in different companies depending on the type of business you’re in.

[00:06:26] Mike: Yeah, and so then you were making the transition, weren’t you? So [00:06:30] do you want to talk through? Yeah.

[00:06:31] Garry: Yes, around 2011 or so, obviously, In the midst of the great financial crisis, maybe banking, it wasn’t the most popular place to [00:06:40] work. Maybe let me put it like that. Yeah. I had a really good set of clients.

[00:06:44] We weren’t, none of them were distressed or anything like that, but I just felt it was time to look and see was there [00:06:50] opportunities to work on the corporate side. So to move into industry, And I was in touch with a prospective client of mine, which was Paddy Power, which is the online [00:07:00] gaming and bookmaking company.

[00:07:01] And they were looking for somebody to head up their treasury function and I met them and we talked about it. I recall looking at the job description and being quite clear with the head of [00:07:10] finance at the time. I know I had to do about 10 percent of what’s on your list here. We got on and he said, look, let’s give it a, let’s give it a go.

[00:07:16] It was, as I’ve said before, it was a bit of a baptism of fire when I [00:07:20] started, I recall walking into a room full of bank reconciliations that needed to be signed that had no one had looked at for kind of six months. There was lots of stuff that you just weren’t expecting to [00:07:30] have to deal with, but it was really interesting, a really super exciting place to work.

[00:07:35] Almost like a, I won’t say a startup, but a tech company that really growing [00:07:40] really fast and was becoming a kind of a big PLC and was trying to deal with those kinds of growing pains around kind of corporate governance and how do we policies and how do we, but how do [00:07:50] we keep the kind of secret sauce that makes the company a really cool place to work?

[00:07:54] And it was a good time to be in treasury. We said we put in place a treasury policy for the first time. We moved off [00:08:00] Excel and put a treasury management system in place. We put hedge accounting in place. We did lots of quite interesting things and it was a great place to work, but really cash generative company.

[00:08:09] So spend a lot of [00:08:10] time managing investments. But I guess after three years, like we had no debt and we had no sign of ever needing any debt. And as a treasurer, I was okay. I’ve come from a banking background. I’m a debt [00:08:20] guy. I need to maybe move to a company that has debt. So I moved to. An Irish company, the Irish Dairy Board, it’s now called Ornua, which is a kind of a derived Irish [00:08:30] word, which means new gold, which basically this is a cooperative that’s owned by all of the dairy producing cooperatives in Ireland.

[00:08:36] So they produce, all of those cooperatives produce [00:08:40] premium butter and cheese products that. The Irish dairy board then sells internationally to well over a hundred countries globally. So it’s one body for the Irish dairy industry that sort of sells those products. So [00:08:50] Kerrygold butter would be the main product that they would sell, largely into the US, Germany, different places into the UK, a huge amount of cheddar cheese goes into the UK.

[00:08:58] And so really interesting [00:09:00] place because, a huge amount of foreign exchange to deal with and really complicated foreign exchange and working capital and cash, like it, because stock and debtors [00:09:10] and creditors, it’s a huge, you’ll have huge swings and massive seasonality in the business in terms of the production cycle and everything.

[00:09:17] So really trying to get to understand that and [00:09:20] put a financing structure in place. And it took us a few years, but to put a financing structure in place that could really cope with those stresses, had receivables financing in place. We put in a stock [00:09:30] financing program, which was quite innovative at the time, and it took a long time to get, because you had IT, you had procurement, you had logistics, warehousing, everybody [00:09:40] needed to be involved in the product.

[00:09:41] Or in the project, we have reverse factoring to support the dairy cooperatives in the region and in the country. So you had to really marry all of [00:09:50] those together. And it was quite an integrated form of financing and just it’s a cooperative. So it was a really nice place to work and I really enjoyed my time there.

[00:09:58] It was a very kind of a [00:10:00] family people really bought into the company and was really good culture. So a really good time.

[00:10:03] Mike: That’s great. Cause I was actually going to ask the, you’d had a. Very corporate culture of Paddy Power, really, where’s the cash, [00:10:10] make sure this is it and everything else. You’ve then gone to this cooperative where perhaps a different culture, more, how did you feel you were doing stuff for the greater good or what was the ethos sort of [00:10:20] thing?

[00:10:20] Garry: . I know when I started in Ornua, I realized after two or three months, I was running way too fast and that the team wasn’t really with me. I didn’t understand why I was going so fast and [00:10:30] a great team, but they’d been there for many years.

[00:10:33] And if I was trying to make changes, like in, in Paddy Power, we used to try and fail, but if you’re going to fail fast, so we went through things really [00:10:40] quickly where it was not the approach in Ornua. And to be honest, I got to much prefer the Ornua approach. Let’s take our time. Let’s really think about it.

[00:10:47] Think of all the angles. And it’s a kind of maybe a [00:10:50] balance of, between the two. So bring new initiatives, but appreciate. That’s the way of doing it. And that’s, and once you have, that’s where you get the buy in that people understand [00:11:00] why you’re making changes that you’re making. No one’s threatened by it.

[00:11:02] And you’re bringing everybody on board. Like a kind of that sort of family culture I think. Yeah. So that’s, it was a big difference. Absolutely.

[00:11:09] Mike: And then you [00:11:10] did, so you were there six years and then you joined Sodexo, which you can explain who they are, but also as you joined Sodexo, you were at a interesting point ’cause you were emerging two [00:11:20] treasury teams quite early on.

[00:11:21] Boom. Talk, talk us through the move and everything else.

[00:11:25] Garry: Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, as you said at the outset, so Sodex is a French company, but it’s actually, it’s [00:11:30] massive global company. It has over. 420, 000 staff. When I joined we were in about 85 countries. We’ve actually, since I’ve joined, we’ve disposed down of a lot of very smaller [00:11:40] countries.

[00:11:40] So we’re about 45 countries with no real impact on our overall revenues as such. It was, it’s more, more simplified. And it’s primarily a food services company. Does facilities [00:11:50] management also, and again, at the time that I started, we had a benefit, a vouchers business, which you call benefit and rewards and also a personal home care services business.

[00:11:59] So there was [00:12:00] split over 3 or 4 different business lines, the French headquartered company, and I was hired basically a few years before I joined, they’d moved the treasury team to Dublin, they’d moved [00:12:10] what we call the group funding team. So it was the main team that looks after bond issuances. syndicated financing, all of the external financing activities of the group.

[00:12:19] But then [00:12:20] also the internal financing, , cash pooling, intercompany lending, any support for mergers and acquisitions, all of that managed through one team. So that was a Paris based team. It was moved to Dublin. [00:12:30] And then they created a separate team in Dublin called the European Treasury Center. So for, Sodexo because it’s its home country, but also UK and Ireland, and [00:12:40] also what we call continental Europe.

[00:12:41] So all of the other kind of, 15 or 20 countries in Europe that we operate in all of the treasury functions of those countries were all moved to Dublin and housed [00:12:50] together in one function. And the role that I was brought in to do was to basically bring those together as 1 group treasury function. I report to the group CFO in Paris.

[00:12:58] So we are group [00:13:00] treasury function is here in Dublin. And so we, we are with that group funding team. We’re managing all of the external financing of the group, and we’re the kind of the go-to point for everyone in Sodexo that, [00:13:10] as I say, either has cash or needs cash, needs to talk to us. And then we also have the European Treasury Center here, which does the more day-to-day payments, cash positioning, [00:13:20] cash forecasting for all of the countries in Europe.

[00:13:22] And, but starting to move now into Asia Pacific and to assist countries there. And then we separately then have. Other treasury teams in [00:13:30] different regions. So we have a team in North America, we have a team in Brazil, we have a team in India, and they don’t report to me as such. They’ll each report to their regional CFO, but they were, we’re the ultimate [00:13:40] kind of treasury team, but, and they follow the same strategy and we work very closely with them on a daily basis.

[00:13:45] Mike: And I talked there about you merging these two treasury teams. You did a really [00:13:50] easy time, like feedback, things like COVID coming along and you having to like, yeah, that was tongue in cheek because it was like you Managing emerging teams, significant change, [00:14:00] and then COVID was there as well. So what was that like?

[00:14:02] Garry: Yeah, no, it’s, it was probably six months before I met my boss in person. And he said, I didn’t know if you were tall or short cause we’d only ever seen each other [00:14:10] over. It was about this big. Yeah. And no, the two teams were all, we’re sitting together if you like, it’s just, they had two different managers and it’s, and they still operate as two [00:14:20] different teams, but they operate very closely together now because if you’re like, I’m directing everything that they’re doing.

[00:14:25] So it’s, it’s, and we have a much better way of sharing information. I think it was more of the [00:14:30] COVID point because everyone was at home. But to be fair, I got to know everyone very quickly, get to understand what they’re, what they do, had to hand over very quickly because the, if you like the two people I was [00:14:40] replacing, we’re both moving back to France, had to really try and download a lot of information.

[00:14:43] And Sodexo is quite a complicated business and has a lot of history of different complicated transactions that have happened. So you [00:14:50] really, you need to, especially in treasury, you need to get to the reason those transactions were put in place, what the history is, why they’re there. And then also I think what was, Difficult was to [00:15:00] try and then build up a rapport and a relationship with all of my peer group who are, to be fair, a lot based in Paris.

[00:15:06] So you’ll have kind of the central functions like tax and M& A and investor relations, [00:15:10] but also the region CFOs that all report to the group CFO. Now they’re all based in countries. I wasn’t any different if I’d have been in Paris. So it’d be the same. In the end, it’s fine. [00:15:20] Yeah. I think it’s, for me, it’s all about relationships.

[00:15:23] Since the flight restrictions and everything have been lifted with COVID. It’s amazing to even think back now that all happened. But I go to Paris every month [00:15:30] and I try and spend two or three days with everybody. That’s, to me, that’s really important that you spend face time and really build a relationship with people.

[00:15:37] Mike: And you talked about in Paddy Power, we’re talking about [00:15:40] technology. You went in that time, you went from Excel onto a system and things. I know that you’ve also done this, the role with technology. At Sodexo and things, you’ve used [00:15:50] different treasury management systems, forecasting. How have you improved the treasury operations when you got to Sodexo?

[00:15:56] What was in place or how has it gone through?

[00:15:58] Garry: Yeah, we’ve always had [00:16:00] a treasury management system in place. Quite a good one that we’re very happy with. It’s for us, it’s been more about how do we use it and how do we deploy it? And I think that’s the kind of [00:16:10] perennial problem. Like treasury management providers will, are naturally always going to invest in their system and have new products.

[00:16:17] As a treasury team, it’s actually [00:16:20] having the bandwidth to be able to catch up with that and to spend time and integrate those systems and to make sure my mantra is we ultimately want to make sure we’re doing the same thing, the same way everywhere, [00:16:30] there’ll always be local nuances and particular geographies as to why we do things a certain way, but on balance, we should be using the same system.

[00:16:37] We should be using it the same way so that we can [00:16:40] support each other. And it’s, and that’s the most efficient way to do it. No, I think we’ve done a lot. With our treasury management system in terms of integrating it more, in terms of getting better reporting out of it, better [00:16:50] forecasting, liquidity planning, all of those kind of key things, but there’s always, it will never stop.

[00:16:55] There’s always more things that we have to do and challenges that we’ll face but it’s [00:17:00] about what we’re trying to do by grouping more and more people together in the treasury center is actually build that kind of knowledge base. And so that’s, and people talk a lot about artificial intelligence.

[00:17:09] Now [00:17:10] we use it a little bit, not, I see a lot, there’s a lot of treasury guys out there at the moment, really getting stuck into it. From our perspective, from my perspective, it’s about making sure that I would say to treasury [00:17:20] analysts, you probably have your morning’s work, which is your daily processes, reconciliations, whatever it is, getting your payments ready, doing all that sort of basic stuff.

[00:17:26] As your career develops, you want to spend less time doing that. So you [00:17:30] want to try and automate that. Take time in the afternoon to automate that because I want, I, what I want this team to become is very much a value added team. So it’s not that we’re [00:17:40] okay. We need to get the day job done and do all of that, but we need to reduce the amount of time we spend doing that and use systems and software to help us do that so that we can really add value.

[00:17:48] And that [00:17:50] it has a twin objective because it’s efficient, but it also helps people grow their own career. So they’re now doing more exciting jobs than they were. And of two years ago, that’s really important to me. [00:18:00]

[00:18:00] Mike: And one of the things I was looking at my notes again, when we spoke before you talked about actionable reporting rather than just data for its own sake, like except just going like [00:18:10] crazy.

[00:18:10] How did you put it? There that you just said about junior guys, but also AI coming along. And we’re like, we can do this, we can do this. And we’ve done it with our salary survey where I’m diving into these [00:18:20] grids. I’m thinking, actually, does anyone care? They want to know you. Where do I stack up in my salary?

[00:18:25] Where do I go here? They want to see some of the data, but they don’t need to see all of the [00:18:30] data. We give it to everyone, but it’s, so in your situation as a treasurer, where’s, where do you draw the line? What’s actionable reporting? What’s excessive, if you like? [00:18:40]

[00:18:40] Garry: Yeah, it’s true. And I try and call it out when I see it, people just send me reports for the sake of it.

[00:18:45] And I’m like, is anyone really reading this? Did they get any benefit from it? What’s the point? And I do [00:18:50] think it’s human nature to sometimes a little bit, if you’re tired or whatever, it’s a Monday morning, you go, Oh, I can send out this report. I always do. I know how to do it. You’re almost it’s cognitive.

[00:18:58] You’re almost asleep doing it. [00:19:00] It’s automatic. You have, we have to challenge ourselves and say, does anyone getting any benefit from that? What’s the rationale for it? I set up, I report to the group CFO. [00:19:10] When I have time with him, like we run through 50 topics in a short space of time, he doesn’t have time for me to explain 50 pages.

[00:19:17] Let’s go to number

[00:19:18] Mike: three. Let’s go back on that. [00:19:20]

[00:19:20] Garry: We’ve got to get through things really quickly. And that’s what I mean by actionable data. Say, look, this is telling me this. That’s what we need to worry about. I’m ready to so that even at the [00:19:30] level of people who are generating the reports that they start to realize, look, I can get a to generate the report.

[00:19:35] Actually, what’s really important is not that I send the report to somebody is actually that I send it with some commentary and that [00:19:40] I think about it. And I say, Hey, I’m the one looking at this every week. And I’ve noticed a trend or I see something happening. That’s value out like that’s. But it’s about giving people the time to be able to [00:19:50] do that and a mandate and say, look, it’s your job to comment on this.

[00:19:53] It’s your job to know the things and to shout out when you see it and don’t be afraid. You know what I mean? So that’s, for me, that’s really important.

[00:19:59] Mike: And what do [00:20:00] you see maybe as some of the touches on it, the biggest challenges, opportunities for treasury professionals at the moment? What are the things that you’re maybe on your Monday meeting that not with the [00:20:10] CFO, but with you and the team or things?

[00:20:11] What are you thinking guys? This focus on this for the week. Quarter, year, what are the key things you’re thinking?

[00:20:18] Garry: A couple of things I’d say, I [00:20:20] think, obviously, we as treasurers, we’re like, we need to be obsessed with cash. And we need to realize that maybe not everyone else in the group is. And so it’s about how we drive that [00:20:30] message.

[00:20:30] So that’s a challenge because people, if you keep banging the door all the time, eventually the message will go through, but then also people will get bored of you as well. You know what I mean? So it’s about having that right message and trying to find that right [00:20:40] balance that you say. How do we make a difference?

[00:20:42] And how do we get people to understand what the key things are? I think that’s definitely one challenge. I think probably like any treasury team, like there’s 12 of us here, [00:20:50] staffing and I just people management when I don’t mean, I don’t mean recruitment or anything like that.

[00:20:54] I’m making sure that people are like I touched on before that they feel like they have a career and that there’s a, that [00:21:00] there’s a, there’s somewhere for them to grow too, so they can see, okay. I’m doing this now, but actually in 12 months, in 24 months, in 36 months, this is, and so that they feel involved and they can see, [00:21:10] okay, when I produce this report, it actually, it goes to the CFO and he’s making this decision.

[00:21:14] So that’s the, actually that’s the role I’ve played, as opposed to people maybe being a little bit in the dark and not really [00:21:20] understanding what they’re doing. So it’s, that’s the challenge is to try and get people to understand how they fit into the big picture and the key role that Treasury places.

[00:21:27] Plays in the group, as I said before, [00:21:30] technology. But I think for me, technology, like the technology is there and the technology will always be being developed quite quickly. It’s about scraping out the time to be able to catch [00:21:40] up with that technology and to apply it to our own business needs.

[00:21:43] That’s a challenge is because we’ve a list of 20 or 30 projects that we want to do here, but we’re always struggling to get to them [00:21:50] generally because we’ve got to do the day job. And the only answer is to make the day job. Less time consuming, but it’s, you’ve got to take the time to then invest in making the day job, less time consuming.

[00:21:59] So it’s a, you’ve [00:22:00] got to, it’s a cycle. Yeah.

[00:22:02] Mike: But it’s interesting, just going back to your point there about a treasurer. When I’ve looked at a lot of the previous podcasts, we’re on 350 plus, [00:22:10] one of the key things that come out is treasurers like yourself becoming more people leaders. That are the most successful people said, what makes a more successful treasurer?

[00:22:19] And [00:22:20] I’ve written articles about it about, and again, I quoted it recently that it’s not about you anymore. It’s about them. It’s about going to your team. And when I, so I’ll go back a [00:22:30] couple of years ago, I was interviewed. I was giving a session rather for some of the top US treasurers. So I’m chatting away to them and they were saying, look, we need to mentor my team.

[00:22:38] We need to do this. [00:22:40] What do I need to do? How do I need? I said, these are the top reasons people leave from our salary survey and not being work life balance, not being led, not being having clear career path. [00:22:50] I went through, these are the top reasons. And they were like, okay. And I said, look, go and have a coffee with a member of your team.

[00:22:55] I said, how’s your work life balance? Where do you see yourself in [00:23:00] 12 months, 24 months? What can I do as a leader to help you? You literally sit across the table with them, not just Come from the top down as you sit across with them and they were like, Oh, and I [00:23:10] said, yeah, 80 percent of your problems will go away because I’ll say they said so.

[00:23:14] And then we’re like, Oh yeah. And it’s but it sounds like you’ve already got that going as well.

[00:23:18] Garry: Yeah, I try to, I won’t [00:23:20] say we’re perfect, but I’m live to the challenge that work life balance you touched on. Like we try and have a pretty good work life balance here. I always say to people, you don’t need to come and tell me that it’s your [00:23:30] kids Christmas play and you won’t be in it.

[00:23:31] And I’m like, just go do it.

[00:23:33] Mike: Yeah.

[00:23:34] Garry: Equally, if we need to do something at 8 PM on a Friday evening, and it’s really urgent, like we just do it, but [00:23:40] we’re a team, we know when to pull together and, but we’re not, I’m not a clock watcher, but that’s not how we operate. Touched on it, you have to have, you have to be, I’m always thinking about where’s [00:23:50] next for each of the team.

[00:23:51] What do they, what can they do? Because that’s the specific nature of treasury, but it’s different to a lot of other finance functions where somebody can work in consolidation and then go and work in a [00:24:00] region or go and work in FP& A. Probably treasury is relatively specialized. We want, people will either go moving up or moving out.

[00:24:07] And so you have to have a way up for them. [00:24:10] And it’s, it upsets me. Sometimes people will leave good people that you’ve put a lot of time into on balance. I go, do you know what? I didn’t have a better opportunity for them here. And so go, I might see them again [00:24:20] in four or five years. They might come back.

[00:24:21] You know what I mean? It’s I’m sad to lose people, but I’m happy for them if it’s the right move. And then, yeah, as a leader, like my job, I’d be honest, I [00:24:30] don’t know how to do the daily treasury for France, or I don’t know that the daily activities, it’s my job to make, to facilitate whatever the team needs, do you know what I mean?

[00:24:39] And to [00:24:40] be a champion for them and to say, look, treasury needs this. We need investment in this type of project, or we need this team to move. We need, and it’s my job to get those things done and to shine a [00:24:50] light on stuff and say, strategically, this is where we need to go and to influence others so that.

[00:24:55] Treasury becomes, it moves up to the top of the list in terms of activities that we need to do.

[00:24:59] Mike: And [00:25:00] if someone were listening and just reflecting back on your earlier career, your younger self, if you like, you were in corporate banking, what piece of advice would you give yourself to that? Is, if someone is [00:25:10] in corporate banking, they want to make that move into treasury, is that something you still see people doing?

[00:25:15] What do people need to do to set themselves up for success in that way?

[00:25:18] Garry: Yeah, I think it’s [00:25:20] funny and I talk I enjoy mentoring people and I talk to people all the time. Sometimes you have to make a sideways move and I think people oftentimes, and I’m not, ’cause I come from a banking background, I know people are relatively, or they [00:25:30] used to be relatively well paid in banks and they’d go and say, oh, if I move into that role and treasury, you have to take a bit of a kickback in, in salary.

[00:25:36] And I’m not so happy to do that. I’d say you need to, if it’s what you want [00:25:40] to do, you need to be brave and go and do it. You know what I mean? If that’s what you’re interested in doing. So to take the plunge, I think challenge yourself. I think the best bit of advice I ever got from [00:25:50] anybody. And I can still remember him as a lovely older guy, but he was my, one of my first or second days on the job in the bank.

[00:25:55] And he said, look, don’t panic. He goes, the two things that you said, there’s nothing that can’t be learned that [00:26:00] happens in this building. You know what I mean? There’s you don’t need to be a rocket scientist. You learn it. So don’t let it, don’t panic. And he said, and then don’t worry in three months, you’ll be better than you were today.

[00:26:08] Hey in six months you’ll be better again, so [00:26:10] just have that kind of confidence in yourself to say, okay I don’t actually know how to do all this stuff, but I can learn when I can challenge myself And that’s what I look for in people is the attitude Do you know what I [00:26:20] mean? Is it if they have positive attitude?

[00:26:21] Can they will they fit in? Will they be helpful? Will they roll up their sleeves and say look? I don’t know how to do this or it’s actually it’s not my job, but you’re struggling. I’ll help you It’s That’s [00:26:30] kind of attitude. I don’t, we support people to go through different treasury qualifications and all that sort of stuff to better their career.

[00:26:35] But for me, that’s not the fundamental, it’s the attitude. It’s the person, it’s how they feel [00:26:40] and think about things. And when the chips are down, can you look at that person and say, that person’s going to help me? And that’s what you want. And not somebody who’d be like, Oh, that’s beneath me. Or I don’t [00:26:50] want to do that.

[00:26:51] That’s not for me. You know what I mean? We don’t want people like that. So

[00:26:53] Mike: it’s funny. Usually we wrap up, I put you, I’ll put your LinkedIn details in the show notes, but I feel like you’ve already given one of the [00:27:00] great pieces of advice from that guy that you first met, but any other, as I say, we’ll put your LinkedIn details in the show notes, but any other takeaways or lessons from your treasury [00:27:10] career that you think other treasury folks.

[00:27:13] But the junior, senior should listen to or apply themselves.

[00:27:17] Garry: I think I would say I’ve been very lucky [00:27:20] throughout my career. All of my managers and bosses that I’ve worked for have all been really helpful and supportive of me in their own ways. Everyone is a different character. And I think the advice I’d give is.[00:27:30]

[00:27:30] Have a, it’s important to have a good relationship with your line manager and have an honest relationship with them and to understand maybe where they’re coming from, but, and to build up that rapport, because I just think it’s [00:27:40] really important to be honest with people and to say, look, this is, these are my, this is my development and needs, or this is my objective.

[00:27:45] This is where I want to go with my career. Or this is how I need you [00:27:50] to support me because appreciate you could be working for someone who has 10 or 15 direct reports and has a boss and has lots of other things to do. So for me, it’s about having [00:28:00] that good relationship with them and also becoming that kind of trusted advisor, doing the stuff that maybe nobody else wants to do or making difficult calls.

[00:28:08] But being proactive, being [00:28:10] helpful, being a dependable person, I think that just worth it. It’s worth its weight in gold in terms of. Your relationship not just with your own line manager, but with all of your peer [00:28:20] group and then with everybody that’s part of your team that should be coma, the trusted person and people say, okay, that person’s reliable.

[00:28:27] That’s the person’s dependable. That’s the main bit of [00:28:30] advice I’d say is just don’t be afraid, roll up the sleeves and get stuck in and every company, every treasury I’ve worked for is entirely different. And so you need to come with a kind of a. [00:28:40] Okay. I don’t know how to do this, but I’m going to figure it out and I’m going to work with it and maybe we’ll change it.

[00:28:44] Maybe we won’t, but let me see what it is first.

[00:28:47] Mike: And just taking that just one step further, you talked about [00:28:50] being a trusted advisor, maybe to the CFO yourself, how do you said that they’ve got different drivers, maybe than you as the treasurer, you’re going to do in the day to day managing the team and make sure that [00:29:00] works.

[00:29:00] If there are other treasurers listening and they’re thinking how do you, what do you, how do you manage your relationship with your CFO? Not one to one, but more in general. So without confidentiality, what do you, [00:29:10] what are they looking for? You’ve been through this.

[00:29:12] Garry: Yeah, I think you need to understand what’s important for them.

[00:29:15] Okay. And what are they? And I said at the start, they’re looking for stability. When I think if I was the [00:29:20] CFO, I’d say, I’m looking at my treasurer, just, I wanna make sure we don’t run outta money, or I wanna make sure we don’t have any exposures. I wanna make sure he’s across everything. Fine. And I think always, [00:29:30] and it’s always in life, I think it’s helpful to have gone through some kind of a.

[00:29:35] Like a war or a battle like together, do you know what I mean? So that person can, [00:29:40] your line manager, your CFO can look and say, actually, you know what? We got through that together and I trust that person now, do you know what I mean? But to have had some big hurdle to get over and say, we [00:29:50] made it. And actually when the heat was really on that person delivered because then you become that kind of trusted advisor, I think, and you’ve got to keep.

[00:29:57] You’ve got to build on that and keep delivering and [00:30:00] maintain that trust, but you’ve earned that trust then, and you might have slightly different objectives, but I think once you become more and more trusted, you can then start to introduce your own [00:30:10] objectives and explaining. You have a better platform to be able to say.

[00:30:13] Look, this may not be important to you, but it’s important to us. We’ve got to do this. And I think once you’ve built that kind of [00:30:20] trusted relationship, then you’ll have a much better platform to be able to get those things done. And equally understanding exactly starting to learn with that person why different things are important to them and why they’re not.[00:30:30]

[00:30:30] Mike: So being the trusted advisor of the CFO.

[00:30:33] Garry: Yeah,

[00:30:33] Mike: exactly.

[00:30:34] Garry: Really important.

[00:30:35] Mike: Amazing. Gary, thank you very much, sir. Looking forward to seeing you in Dublin. I’ll be over [00:30:40] in 2025 and thank you very much for today. Thanks Mike. Pleasure. Cheers.

  • For Treasury Leaders: Build a culture of trust, align with organizational goals, and prioritize actionable reporting over data overload.
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